No tax exempt status for churches without waiving your constitutional rights

by Gary
(Idaho)

I do not understand why the quibble about whether or not a church applies or does not apply for a 501c3 status...The premise is that you are already tax exempt if you are a church but if you apply for the 501c3 status you then waive your constitutional rights....it is then quoted in the IRS publication that you don't need to apply for a 501c3 status but you may do so voluntarily if you choose.

Yes, indeed the above is true, however the IRS definition of a church is one that complies with all the regulations that are necessary to get the official 501c3 status.

So whats the difference? If you apply for the 501c3 status your church has to comply with the criteria set forth in which you waive your constitutional rights...if you don't apply for the 501c3 status you cannot be tax exempt unless your church complies with the same rules in which you waive your constitutional rights.

In other words, if you apply or don't apply you are no better or no worse...you have to waive your rights in either condition to get the tax exempt status.

Comments for No tax exempt status for churches without waiving your constitutional rights

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Church immunity from IRS code
by: Dr. Thomas

Hi Gary,

Suggestion: For the sake of other readers who might want to check things for themselves, please put the source of the quote (e.g. 26 USC 501(c)(3) etc.) Thanks.

Check out 26 USC 508

(a) New organizations must notify Secretary that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status Except as provided in subsection (c),

(c) Exceptions
(1) Mandatory exceptions Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—
(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches,

In these statutes, the IRS is giving itself NOTICE that they have no effect on churches UNLESS the church applies to be "recognized" as one of their churches.

Immunity: the tax code does not give a legal definition of "immunity"—and that is a good thing because Congress can give ordinary words any meaning it pleases.

For example, in the tax code, a "person" is not a human being (homo sapiens). A "person" is an artificial entity (a corporation, trust, etc). The "United States" is geographically located ONLY in the District of Columbia (See 26 USC 7701 —definitions for other eye openers).

So, Since Congress has not defined immunity, it has its ordinary meaning. To be immune from something means you cannot be affected by that something.

For example, there are people who cannot be affected by the AIDS virus no matter how hard they might try. They are genetically immune. https://www.hivplusmag.com/research-breakthroughs/2016/3/23/anyone-immune-hiv

The Constitution is the 'genetic code' for churches and renders them immune from being affected (infected) by politicians' statutes.

And the IRS recognizes 1.) churches not defined by the IRS are AUTOMATICALLY exempted from any IRS processes—unless they apply for IRS jurisdiction; 2.) You must apply to the IRS to be subject to it in order to be made exempt from it.

Using 26 USC and trying to find the 'truth' therein about non-501c3 churches being immune from the IRS (not affected or infected by it)is a futile exercise in confusion. The statutes are written to be confusing for a purpose (Franklin Roosevelt said: "the government never does anything by accident").

Intentional confusion is necessary for several reasons: 1.) people will assume that legally defined terms have their ordinary meaning and subject themselves to statutes that, for example, contain the term "person". Or that they live in the "United States" (Washington DC where Congress has jurisdiction and that they are subjects of Congress when in fact they live in Keokuk Iowa or Cheyenne Wyoming).

Confusion is also necessary so the courts can proceed with legal definitions while 'defendants' are using common definitions. The courts, created by statutes, only have jurisdiction over artificial statutory "persons" not the "People" of the founding documents.

So, if you have not applied for IRS jurisdiction in writing by filling out IRS forms and signing them under penalty of perjury, then 26 USC is entirely irrelevant—and that is the statutory position of the IRS itself.

The Automatic part refers back to the 501c3 qualified church
by: Gary

Sir: Here is the quote from the IRS:

"Churches, Integrated Auxiliaries, and Conventions or Associations of Churches
Churches (including integrated auxiliaries and conventions or associations of churches) that meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of exempt status from the IRS."

I am not aware of any quote in the Code where it states they are automatically 'immune' from taxes without referencing the 501c3 status.

I wished the Code did agree with the Constitution, but if there was it would have to be in contradiction to what was just said.

As you can read above it plainly states '...churches that meet the requirements of section 501(c)3 are the ones who are automatically considered tax exempt.

If a person wants to be free you have to go back to the Constitution...not the Code.

Your quote states "...The IRS only says it "recognizes" the tax immune status of churches. It does not say anywhere that it "grants" tax immunity. The word "recognize" was carefully chosen. You recognize something that preexists. You grant immunity to something you create and have control over."

For your assessment to be true, it has to first exist somewhere in the Code. It can not just be stated that the IRS recognizes the tax immune status of the church, unless the IRS actually said that.

To say the word 'recognize' was carefully chosen would also mean it has to exist somewhere in the Code...if they didn't use the word 'recognize' then they didn't use the word, much less choose it carefully.

I am not saying the word 'recognize' is never used in the Code, but if you do just please quote where it is stated as pertaining to the tax exempt status of churches.

Just because we say 'The IRS says XXX...does not mean the IRS said anything. We have to find out what they said before we can even attempt to know what they meant.




Where does the Code say they are immune?
by: Anonymous

Could you please cite the quote where it recognizes that churches are immune...?

Here is the actual partial quote from the IRS ...

"Churches (including integrated auxiliaries and conventions or associations of churches) that meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of exempt status from the IRS."

What you are saying about Johnson may be all true, and yes of course before the IRS gave their stated position on many things we could rely on the Constitution for freedom of speech....and I am not trying to validate the Code, the Constitution trumps any law not made in accordance with it, but I do not see where the Code specifically states that they are immune...the quote I gave does not say they are immune, it says those that comply with the status of a 501c3 church are tax exempt....

I am not saying you are wrong, so please show me where the Code states they are immune and if it does say that, would that not openly contradict what was just quoted?

The Automatically exempt refers back to 501c3 compliant churches
by: Anonymous

Hello Sir- I am trying to be careful with the wording, but this is what the wording in the Code states:

Churches, Integrated Auxiliaries, and Conventions or Associations of Churches
Churches (including integrated auxiliaries and conventions or associations of churches) that meet the requirements of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of exempt status from the IRS. Donors are allowed to claim a charitable deduction for donations to a church that meets the section 501(c)(3) requirements even though the church has neither sought nor received IRS recognition that it is tax exempt. In addition, because churches and certain other religious organizations are not required to file an annual return or notice with the IRS, they are not subject to automatic revocation of exemption for failure to file. See Annual Return Filing Exceptions for a complete list of organizations that are not required to file.

As you can see it specifically states "... churches that meet the requirements of 501c3 are automatically considered tax exempt... yes it uses the word automatically, but the automatically part refers back to only churches that meet requirements of a 501c3... in other words you have to give up your right to free speech and cannot be political... I understand it's horrible, but the horrible part is that the code here is unconstitutional on its face, so one has to actually bypass the code to get back to your constitutional right... the Code gives us no quarter.

No tax exempt status for churches without waiving your constitutional rights
by: Dr. Thomas

"if you don't apply for the 501c3 status you cannot be tax exempt unless your church complies with the same rules in which you waive your constitutional rights."

You have to be very careful of the language. there is a difference between being exempt (you first have to be subject to something to be exempted from it) and immune from it (Read the First Amendment carefully.

Churches were not even involved with 26 USC 501c3 until Lyndon Johnson duped them into believing they had to have IRS approval to exercise their religious function.

The IRS only says it "recognizes" the tax immune status of churches. It does not say anywhere that it "grants" tax immunity. The word "recognize" was carefully chosen. You recognize something that preexists. You grant immunity to something you create and have control over.

When a church applies to the IRS for its jurisdiction, it accepts the IRS definition of a church. The IRS creates a church, you must apply to become a member, then you must comply with its doctrines, teachings, tithe reports, and avoid any of the "sins" it defines (like naming politicians from the pulpit).

Non-IRS churches are guaranteed the protection of the First Amendment.

Unfortunately, most church attendees worry that their contributions to a non-IRS church won't give them a tax break.

If you join a church to get a tax break then just join an IRS church and stop fretting about it being a state-created church. Sing your hymns, put your money on the plate, and take your tax deduction. What could be simpler?

But, know this, the god you are worshiping in order to save a few dollars is the STATE--the god created by politicians. You are not worshiping the uncreated eternal Creator.

When Nancy Pelosi said that Obama was a "gift from God"--she could only mean that he was a gift from the political system that created and supported him (until he became a mere mortal again).

If you can live with that--so can God who tells Samuel to let the people leave His jurisdiction and seek the jurisdiction of the king (the state).

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